WKD March 10, 2011

  • WorldKidneyDay 2011

Copyright

StatCounter


Tip Jar

Change is good

Tip Jar

DSEN twitter feed

    follow me on Twitter
    Blog powered by TypePad

    « Should hospital based dialysis units receive higher Medicare reimbursement? | Main | DHHS Secretary nominee Daschle withdraws nomination »

    February 02, 2009

    TrackBack

    TrackBack URL for this entry:
    http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e54fc659eb883401053701b331970b

    Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Treatment Options for Intradialytic Hypotension: Part II:

    Comments

    Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

    Simon Prince

    Dr Laird- well said.

    I share your enthusiasm and completely agree in principle. The only issue I have, is that it is just not an appropriate or feasible option for many dialysis patients I care for... They are disabled, may have dementia, or a poor home environment with little to no support. In these cases the home hemo option is dangerous and prohibitive. In-center daily nocturnal would be very costly as you know.. aside from the economic downside, I am all for it... BUT.. this brings me to another point.. If we as a society can stop dialyzing patients that are well into their 80-90s, with endstage co-morbidities, this may free up some of the resources to embark upon such a program as you highlight. Unfortunately, as you know it is not that easy...especially in this economic environment. We are unwilling/ unable to make the tough choices other countries have to limit dialysis to those with even the poorest outlooks.

    Peter Laird, MD

    Dr. Prince, thank you for your engaging and insightful comments. Much of the focus at DSEN has been on the pursuit of optimal dialysis and castigating usual dialysis therapy based mainly on the inadequate dosage of the intervention. As you have stated, it would be your own preference to go on home hemo if dialysis was in your future, which I pray it never is. However, with only 1% of American patients having the availability of this resource, it is a very underutilized modality. We here at DSEN enthusiastically and perhaps even aggressively advocate that it should be made more widely available which gets into CMS and the payment for this modality. We have a long way to go.

    Part of the problem that we have encountered is America's love affair with renal transplantation to the exclusion of considering the long term beneficial statistics of quotidian dialysis regimens which have been shown to rival renal transplant survival data. In fact, Australia and New Zealand have achieved 2% mortality for patients dialyzing over 20 hours/week. For patients such as Bill and I with absolute and relative contraindications to transplant, it has been an uphill battle to at times educate our own nephrologists on the home dialysis and quotidian dialysis issues.

    I would have to state that Bill has had a much easier time at it since he is part of the NorthWest Kidney Centers where Dr. Belding's influence still runs deep with people such as Dr. Blagg for instance. There are strong arguments for considering home dialysis over even the transplant option in selected patients.

    DSEN believes it is time to recognize and embrace the other gift of life in kidney disease which is optimal hemodialysis. Yet, we come up against an entrenched bias against it which is unique to American nephrology that is not found in Japan, Europe and down under. I don't believe it is a sweeping generalization to critique what factors contribute to our last place finish in international dialysis statistics. Most American kidney professionals attribute this to an extended age of our dialysis population with multiple comorbidities and do not address the reality of our failed American dialysis strategy of short, violent dialysis sessions.

    Keeping to the issue of intradialytic hypotension, the entire point of my post was to draw attention to the American approach of treating complications that could be avoided if we reevaluated our dialysis protocols and recognized that we are causing many of these symptoms by virtue of the manner in which we dialyze. In other words, the common dialysis symptomotology we see with many of our patients is actually iatrogenic in nature and Europe, Japan and Australia avoid it more often in their patients because that they have rejected short, violent dialysis protocols.

    Short, fast and infrequent is the problem with long, slow and frequent the answer. It is a paradigm shift that is based on physiology and outcomes, not economics that gave us short, fast and infrequent in the first place. It is evidence based, not economic based. That in a nut shell is the failure of the American dialysis protocol.

    It is time to return to the evidence as American medicine so boldly preaches, but in the case of dialysis patients so totally fails to practice. This may appear as a sweeping generalization on the outset, but at its core is the essential reason why America has a 2.5 times higher mortality rate than Japan. I urge all American nephrologists to consider the evidence compiled by your international colleagues and stop this dance with death that is unique in many ways to America alone.

    Simon Prince

    Your points are very well taken and the dialogue is enjoyable. I have read the studies and agree with your position. I.. like most American Nephrologists I believe would prefer quotidian dialysis. It isn't that we are against it, unaware of it, or think it is deleterious. It is more the feeling of constraint by the American health system that does not allow quotidian dialysis to be a viable option for our patients. I would clearly prefer it to 3.5-4 hr TIW HD for my patients if it was available.

    Peter Laird, MD

    I agree, thank you Dr. Prince for your sincere comments.

    Dori

    Dr. Prince, it is crucial not to look at the poor outcomes of in-center dialysis ("they are disabled, may have dementia...") and use them as reasons to deny people better treatment. Much of the disability seen in in-center dialysis is BECAUSE of in-center dialysis (see: Kutner N., et al, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178781?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum). If more people received better (read: longer and/or more frequent) treatments, many wouldn't be disabled--and some might not have dementia, either. I question how much home support is required, as folks like Bill P dialyze by themselves, without "supportive family members" to help.

    In Australia and New Zealand, as many as 50% of patients dialyze at home, about 35% with PD and 15% with HD. In the US, fewer than 8% of people dialyze at home. Americans are not fundamentally different from Australians--but our healthcare system is.

    According to the Dialysis Outcomes and Practice Patterns Study (DOPPS), the US has the poorest dialysis outcomes in the industrialized world, due in large part to short, thrice weekly treatments that are inherently unphysiologic. Kidneys maintain homeostasis. Standard dialysis as it is practiced in the US offers precisely the opposite. If we set out to develop a treatment designed to make people with kidney failure feel their worst, we'd choose 3x/week 3-hour treatments.

    Miriam Lippel Blum

    Well said, Dori. But how much poorer the dialysis companies would be (said with great sarcasm.)

    Dori

    Miriam, when working-age people on dialysis (who are 50% of the total) feel well enough to keep their jobs and their health plans, dialysis companies do BETTER, because they have more people with employer group health plans (EGHPs) that pay more than Medicare does. It improves their payer mix to offer PD, nocturnal dialysis in-center or at home, or short daily treatments. So, it's a win-win-win for patients, dialysis providers, and Medicare when people get better dialysis.

    The real barrier to this, IMHO, is the "wall" between Medicare Part A (hospitalization) and Part B (outpatient services including dialysis). The renal community does not get "credit" for reducing hospitalization by offering better dialysis, so CMS has not yet routinely approved payment for a 4th dialysis treatment. In an integrated system like Kaiser Permanente in southern California, all of the incentives are aligned. With Medicare, they are reversed. This is just poorly constructed policy.

    Lana Shubina RN CNN

    My dialysis center opened In-Center Nocturnal Hemodialysis almost 3 years ago. Currently we have 18 patients who is coming to the unit 3 nights a week and getting 8 hrs long gentle slow dialysis. 60% of them are working full-time and feeling great after their treatments. Some of the older patients with poor cardiac status are not doing that well: they are feeling less energetic, often very tired after longer treatments. We still have few patients who continue to gain over 6kg between treatments. We use sequential UF, low sodium modeling (SVS 143 step) and ongoing education. All patients are reporting increased appetite and feeling less "drain" than after short dialysis sessions. Most of them are sleeping during the nights with or without sleeping aids, but few only have a short naps of 3-4 hrs and reporting that they have to go to bed at home after dialysis.
    I think that Nocturnal In-Center Hemodialysis is one of the preferable treatment choices but not for everyone.

    Brian Steele-Sierk

    Heh- I ate two bowls of onion soup tonight, and am now hooking up to my nxstage.

    The real is as stated- we assume in center as the "normal" treatment modality, rather than trying to find ways to get patients home.

    Verify your Comment

    Previewing your Comment

    This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

    Working...
    Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
    Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

    The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

    As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

    Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

    Working...

    Post a comment

    Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

    My Photo

    Fix Dialysis

    • www.fixdialysis.com

    Search DSEN


    • WWW
      WWW.BILLPECKHAM.COM

    Rate DSEN

    October 2011

    Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
                1
    2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    9 10 11 12 13 14 15
    16 17 18 19 20 21 22
    23 24 25 26 27 28 29
    30 31