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    Bill Peckham

    The healthcare systems of Canada and England have long since shed the medical ethics of Hippocrates(PDF link) in serving the individual patient to the maximum extent of the talents of the physicians to that of population based outcomes that often deny the individual treatments that could extend, prolong or improve their remaining life.

    Peter do you have an example of this? It seems to me that compared to the US model of insurance based healthcare the Europeans are closer to the Hippocratic ideal.

    If a Briton walks into an NIH facility their ailment is treated per medical guidelines. In the US a person is treated per insurance guidelines. The ethics of US medicine are more business then anything else.

    Peter Laird, MD

    Dear Bill, thank you as always for your comments.

    I was quite fortunate to have the work situation where yes, I did have guidelines, but I could exceed them and do what I felt in my best judgement was best for the patient. The insurance guidelines did not constrain me. I have heard many accounts where physicians in Britain do not have the authority to go beyond the guidelines even when effective treatments are known but not approved in the guidelines such as some of the new treatments for RCCA specifically as is hopefully never a need that you will ever have personally but in England they are fighting for this still despite the known benefit.

    http://www.kidneycancerresource.com/index.php/Kidney_Cancer_Support_Group_Oxford_27-Jan-09

    http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2008/08/06/nice-decision-on-kidney-cancer-drugs-have-your-say/

    The issue is whether the doctor is able to use all of his abilities or are they restricted by guidelines set at a national level. A diligent physician here in America still has the ability to overcome the financial constraints of the insurance company when they are able to document the risk, benefit and alternatives in a dramatic fashion. The biggest issue is that of malpractice in America where the insurance companies are held to a higher standard if care is withheld that could have benefited the patient that the physician sought.

    Under a NHS type of system, the NHS will set the standards of care instead of the current community standard of care we have in America. In that system, the lawyers will not be able to sue if the doctors act in accordance with government mandated population based outcomes. There is still checks and balances in our system even with all of the financial incentives of insurance companies to avoid expensive care.

    Fortunately, my entire career has been devoid of personal financial incentives on any patient care. I never felt hindered by what I could offer the patient other than the limitations of our knowledge. I believe that is in keeping with the Hippocratic tradition where limiting care on a national level by approved guidelines has potential conflicts of interest at the level of the individual.

    Bill Peckham

    Peter you didn't see anyone unless they were in the Kaiser system. The problems in America addressed by the current legislation are problems with insurance - people getting dumped when they get sick, policies that don't actually give people the coverage they need, insurance costs that increase 40% a year.

    Right now I and many others who have chronic illnesses are not employable by small businesses or able start a business because of insurance issues. It has nothing to do with the skills we could bring to a job, it is only about the our cost under existing insurance schemes.

    Talking about an NHS system isn't relevant - there is no proposal for the US government to buy the hospitals and employ the docs. That's just not on the table or even down the road.

    The issues that I see being debated in Congress are all around insurance and pharmaceuticals. The current system is expensive and ineffective. Keeping things as they are is not an appealing option.

    Peter Laird, MD

    Bill, I believe at the heart of my comments is the ethical change occurring with in my profession. Unfortunately as you have correctly pointed out, American medicine has long since slipped away from being a profession to being a big business. There are many of us old timers that decry the change in the ethics of individual patient care to that of population based outcomes. It is a movement away from the traditional doctor-patient bedside decisions.

    At Kaiser, since I did not have to obtain prior approval for medical tests and treatments that I ordered, I still had the freedom to act upon my personal medical ethics framed in the Oath of Maimonides and Hippocretes of devotion to the individual before you. For myself, it was quite easy since I have suffered my own medical issues. From what I have read about the Canadian and English system, it is unlikely that I would have been able to operate within my own old fashioned medical ethics. I simply would not be able to order the tests or the treatments that went beyond the guidelines as I was able to do at Kaiser.

    That is at the heart of my objection to the new medical ethics that is already entrenched in American medicine.

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