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    « Dialysis MSP extension not included in Senate Finance Committee health insurance reform bill | Main | Dialysis & CKD Blog Report 10/4 »

    October 02, 2009

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    Idalia

    Does that really answer the question of cost-effectiveness?
    I can see that privately insured patients "cost" more then Medicare patients - from the payer perspective. But this only indicates how much revenue they generate and simply shows that Medicare payment are lower then what private pays for patient. To understand and compare cost efficiency one would have to look at cost structure of dialysis delivery by different providers. Would you agree with that?

    Bill Peckham

    You can see the per treatment cost structure of Large Dialysis Organizations vs. Small Dialysis Organizations at the PDF link in the second to last paragraph. What it shows is that LDOs have greater purchasing power and there by low costs.

    Dialysis treats a chronic condition. The medical cost of treating someone who needs dialysis is predictable. Given this, why would private insurance do a better job paying for the healthcare of people who need dialysis? What is the role of profit in treating a chronic condition? On the insurance side and on the provider side?

    When you consider the overhead in administering private insurance, add in the profit margin you're talking about a nearly 30%. What value is given for the 30%?

    On the provider side their cost per treatment is less but despite this Medicare is paying DaVita 20% more per beneficiary. What value is being given for that 20%?

    Zach

    Excellent point, Bill.

    Wormwood

    You numbers are wrong. try $254,904 a year just for hemo.
    $21,242 for 13 treatments per month
    $313.50 for drug/epolt1000 units 22 units per month
    $601.25 for heparin 1000 ut 65 units per month
    $695.00 for venofer 100 units per month
    $3,634.80 for zemplar 52 units per month
    $1,683.05 for Administration.

    These are real numbers.
    no charges went to medicare as secondary

    now I believe I lost my job because of insurance premiums, because of high cost of hemo-dialysis at Davita to my private insurance.

    What is the real cost per treatment in center at Davita? this I would really like to know.

    Peter Laird, MD

    Some insurers do better than that. The treatment cost for each treatment including all costs at my center was $240.00 which included all aspects of care. It was a capitation payment between Kaiser and FMC as an exclusive arrangement where only Kaiser patients were treated at this FMC unit. The manager of the unit said he was able to make enough to keep his supervisors happy and the care for the patients was excellent. Unfortunately, not all insurers get have that type of arrangement between the dialysis provider and the insurance company. With high numbers of patients, it always puzzled me why they didn't have better contracts with dialysis providers.

    Bill Peckham

    My numbers come from SEC filings, they're the best I have access to. That said the revenue numbers are averages. I too have heard about the sort of excessive charges Wormwood describes and I would suspect that his job loss may well have been because of the insurance implications of his continued employment.

    The other public data point we have on charges is the lawsuit http://www.billpeckham.com/from_the_sharp_end_of_the/2008/01/law-suit-reveal.html. Those rates are about what Wormwood describes.

    I think it would be a good project for DSEN to have dialyzors send in their Explanation of Benefits. You'd strip off, black out, redact any personal info e.g. name, SS #, but leave the amount charged, the amount paid, and service location.

    I'd then republish the info - if a couple hundred dialyzors participated it would be a pretty interesting data base.

    Zach

    Excellent idea, Bill.

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